[00:00:00] Adam Rossen:
Let me tell you something, Derrick. We're coming up here on Hot Docket, okay? We're bringing South Florida to [00:00:05] you. We're not scared of you, you Northerners Midwest, Chicago. We're bringing South Florida the [00:00:10] free state of Florida. We're coming here to debate all the top issues. Adam [00:00:15] Rosson, Rosson Law Firm. We play to win.
[00:00:17] Adam Rossen:
That's it. Bar none. We got this. [00:00:20] You can't hang.
[00:00:20] Derek Martin:
You sound like a WWE e wrestler, which makes sense for your South Florida market. I [00:00:25] bet everyone's got those tribal armband tattoos over there. Um, so let's go bring it. [00:00:30] Um, I'm gonna take you out in a one two punch.[00:00:35]
[00:00:35] VO:
Welcome to Hell. Devil's advocate, Pitts lawyer against [00:00:40] lawyer in a battle royale to answer the age old question. Who's better at arguing? [00:00:45] The rules of the game are we spin the wheel of misfortune to decide on a topic. [00:00:50] Once a topic has been selected, the advocates must answer a set of polarizing questions.[00:00:55]
[00:00:55] VO:
When they disagree, the game begins. Each advocate must argue their [00:01:00] side, but here's the devilish twist. They must argue for the side they did not [00:01:05] select. Let the depravity commence.[00:01:10] [00:01:15]
[00:01:16] Bobby Steinbach:
Okay, and welcome to Devil's Advocate. We're gonna have a great episode today. [00:01:20] We've got Derek Martin versus Adam Rosson. Hope I didn't butcher anybody's [00:01:25] names.
[00:01:25] Derek Martin:
We've got Adam as Team Red and Derek as Team Blue for sure. Okay. I mean, one of [00:01:30] us is in Chicago, the other is in Florida, so I mean, yes, I'm blue.
[00:01:34] Derek Martin:
He's red.
[00:01:35] Bobby Steinbach:
Okay. Okay, got it. Alright guys, so I've got a set of [00:01:40] questions in front of me. They're all related to the categories on this wheel. First things first, let's spin [00:01:45] the janky wheel.[00:01:50]
[00:01:51] Bobby Steinbach:
Mm. And the first category, current and [00:01:55] controversial. Should platforms be allowed to censor content or does it violate free speech rights? And this [00:02:00] is in relation to, uh, social media.
[00:02:02] Derek Martin:
Uh, yeah. They should be able to censor content.
[00:02:04] Adam Rossen:
No. [00:02:05] No way.[00:02:10]
[00:02:10] Adam Rossen:
I'll, I'll go first. So yes, we, we need to censor content, uh, that is [00:02:15] hateful and harmful and could be inciting violence because we live in [00:02:20] an order of society and therefore, you know, we need to make sure. Yes, people [00:02:25] can speak their mind to a certain degree, but it is not an absolute degree when we're talking about hate [00:02:30] speech, violent speech, and we see all too often these internet trolls who think they have power [00:02:35] online to go say really nasty, hurtful, and dangerous things.
[00:02:39] Derek Martin:
Sure. But who's to [00:02:40] decide who in internet? Who's an internet troll and who's the president of the United States, right? I mean, you get to [00:02:45] say what you wanna say and who are these moderators that get to pick and choose? [00:02:50] So, um, we're all adults here. We all get to, um. Just sort of do our own [00:02:55] censoring. If you don't like it, unsubscribe, turn it off.
[00:02:58] Derek Martin:
Don't follow. Right. [00:03:00] Um, so we're gonna concentrate the power of moderation [00:03:05] in the hands of a few who then get to direct, you know, what, what gets put out there and [00:03:10] whatnot. Uh, waring, America's, uh, minds or, you know, the world's minds really. [00:03:15] Um, so it's easier just to level the playing field and have no censorship at all.[00:03:20]
[00:03:20] Adam Rossen:
Yeah. Yeah. So look, these are private companies, you know, Facebook, meta, right? [00:03:25] Instagram, they're, they're all private companies. The government can't and shouldn't regulate them and shouldn't tell them what to do. So [00:03:30] if they wanna moderate, um, and, you know, for our protection, because we [00:03:35] know we can't be trusted.
[00:03:36] Adam Rossen:
Okay? You know, you say all these things about people, you know, having [00:03:40] free speech or just being allowed to do what they want and turn it off. We, we can't turn it off. This is, this is [00:03:45] the new norm, social media. And so we, it's a simpler solution
[00:03:49] Derek Martin:
just to let it [00:03:50] go, let it run, let humans take its course. It's a simpler, uh, [00:03:55] solution and I think there's some, some elegance in, in that is just let.
[00:03:59] Derek Martin:
People be [00:04:00] people.
[00:04:00] Adam Rossen:
Yeah. But with the rise of school shootings and violence out there and, and [00:04:05] terroristic threats, you know, we, we, we, we need to stop this as a society, okay? We have to have [00:04:10] control. We have to stop it, um, and
[00:04:12] Derek Martin:
protect society. Hold on. Now, if [00:04:15] society. Um, you know, has all this high moral ground, won't they sort of [00:04:20] censor it themselves?
[00:04:21] Derek Martin:
Sure. That piece of content gets out there, but then nobody watches it. Nobody [00:04:25] reposts it, nobody views it. Um, because it's not something that society's interested in, in the [00:04:30] first, in, in the first place.
[00:04:31] Adam Rossen:
So, if. Your ideals of this utopian [00:04:35] society are just not correct. It doesn't happen that way. We need to be protected by, you know, by big [00:04:40] corporations.
[00:04:40] Adam Rossen:
By big corporations
[00:04:42] Derek Martin:
and big government.
[00:04:43] Adam Rossen:
Yes, big tech. Big tech [00:04:45] is here to help us and save us
[00:04:46] Derek Martin:
until ai, now AI starts [00:04:50] moderating this, and so AI algorithms start picking what we see and what we don't see. [00:04:55] Remove the human from the loop. It sounds like a slippery slope.
[00:04:58] Adam Rossen:
Yeah, but it's, it's here to protect [00:05:00] us and save us.
[00:05:00] Adam Rossen:
So, you know, and that, and that's the thing is when we've seen these, these [00:05:05] people dangerous, okay? They're hurting people, they're killing people. There're there's a rise in [00:05:10] hate speech all across the country. Our kids are not safe. Our kids need to be [00:05:15] saved from these people. Okay?
[00:05:17] Derek Martin:
Who, who, that's what, who is this scary [00:05:20] boogieman?
[00:05:20] Derek Martin:
These. People, it's just the internet. There's no trolls on the internet.
[00:05:24] Adam Rossen:
Oh, I see it. We see it on M-S-N-B-C and CNN every single day. The [00:05:30] violence out there, you know, we are, we, we, we are in a, a decline of society that we [00:05:35] need to stop.
[00:05:36] Bobby Steinbach:
Alright guys, I'm gonna cut it. Uh, great points. You both did great. For the first question, let's go to the next category.[00:05:45]
[00:05:45] Bobby Steinbach:
That was the, uh, who wants to be a millionaire? Sound. Uh, food. Let's do food. [00:05:50] Number one, are GMOs safe for consumption or do they pose health risks? [00:05:55]
[00:05:55] Adam Rossen:
Health risks,
[00:05:57] Derek Martin:
yes. Um, we'll skip this one. Yes. Health risks.
[00:06:01] Bobby Steinbach:
Okay. I, I, I agree with a skip. Okay. Uh, should governments impose stricter regulations on fast food to combat obesity?
[00:06:09] Adam Rossen:
On this one, I'm gonna say yes. I mean,
[00:06:13] Derek Martin:
I know I, if we'll argue it, I'll say No.
[00:06:17] Bobby Steinbach:
Love it. I'm a, I'm a McDonald's guy, so I'm [00:06:20] rooting for, uh. Well, who am I rooting for? That gets confusing. You're right. [00:06:25] Um, I'm rooting for one of you. Uh, wait. So Derek, you said no [00:06:30] they should not impose, re regulation. And Adam, you said yes, they should impose regulation.
[00:06:33] Bobby Steinbach:
So Adam, you're taking the [00:06:35] side of no, no regulation.[00:06:40]
[00:06:40] Derek Martin:
So of course, of course they should impose some regulations. I mean, what in the hell [00:06:45] is in a McDonald's, you know? Chicken nugget. It's like pink goop and [00:06:50] stuff like that. Leave the corporations like McDonald's who are just about, um, [00:06:55] profit, just about the shareholders. Um, and not about their cli, not about their [00:07:00] customers.
[00:07:00] Derek Martin:
Um, leave them to their own devices and, uh, not, America's not only fat, they're dying.
[00:07:05] Adam Rossen: So I can tell you this. I've been eating McDonald's since I was probably 3, 4, 5 [00:07:10] years old. I grew up in the eighties where we didn't have any of these issues, and here I am in my forties and [00:07:15] I'm fine and, and just healthy.
[00:07:16] Adam Rossen:
Okay. Who doesn't love a, a great McDonald's cheeseburger. And you know what? Yeah, the
[00:07:20] Derek Martin:
old look at me, I'm okay. So everyone else has gotta be okay too. Argument.
[00:07:25] Adam Rossen:
Oh, absolutely. Right. Why? I don't want the government telling me what I gotta do and, and what I can and can't eat. Give me the salt, give me the, the beef.
[00:07:34] Adam Rossen:
Okay. Give me, you know, the, the pink goop, whatever it is. Right. I trust McDonald's to [00:07:40] take care of me. Okay. And to give me what I want. You know, if, if I don't want to eat it, I won't eat it. [00:07:45] Right. It's simple. It, it's really simple. We don't need the government to get involved in our food. [00:07:50] Um, yeah. But especially when we're talking about fast food.
[00:07:52] Derek Martin:
Right. But I mean, they're putting on the, you know, they're, they're, they're just, there's [00:07:55] so many ways they just put that it's, you know, low calorie, but that's because it's filled with chemicals and [00:08:00] things like, there's so many ways to sort of ob obfuscate or hide the ball on these things that you [00:08:05] don't even know what the hell you're eating at the end.
[00:08:07] Derek Martin:
And we haven't even talked about how. It's addictive. They're pur purposely making this food, this disgusting food that's going to kill [00:08:15] you. It will actually make you die sooner. Uh, they're making it addictive, so [00:08:20] you eat more of it, not because it, you know, it doesn't even make you full. It's just gross [00:08:25] chemicals that's gonna make you die sooner.
[00:08:27] Derek Martin:
But it certainly lines these, uh, fast food companies, pockets.
[00:08:31] Adam Rossen:
Yeah, I mean, I'd love to see these studies. I'm sure these are the same kind of studies that said [00:08:35] COVID was real and people were actually dying from COVID. So I'd love to see that because people did die from COVID. [00:08:40] Nah, it's all government stuff.
[00:08:41] Adam Rossen:
I don't believe it. Okay. You know, and, and I'm telling you guys, you know, it starts with this, what is it gonna be next? We're talking about a slippery slope. Whatcha gonna ban? [00:08:50] Ban MSG and Chinese food? Or you know? Sure. Yeah. No, of course not. Okay. You know, [00:08:55] you're gonna take everything away from us. And what are we gonna be a mindless society that just eats what?
[00:08:59] Adam Rossen:
Grilled [00:09:00] chicken. And then one day you're gonna tell us grilled chicken's, bad eggs. Bad. Well, we'll be skinny.
[00:09:03] Derek Martin:
Healthy, we'll be skinny, healthy and mindless.
[00:09:05] Adam Rossen:
No. And unhappy. Right. We'll be lemmings just walking along. Simulation here.
[00:09:10] Derek Martin:
You know, Americas could stand to walk along a little bit. You know, you ever been to Walmart and all the riding, you know, you're sitting in these little scooters.
[00:09:18] Derek Martin:
They could stand to walk a little bit.
[00:09:20] Adam Rossen:
Hey, we, you know what? We love Walmart. Okay? And we love our scooters. Don't take our scooters away again. There you go. Government's gonna take our scooters away.
[00:09:28] Bobby Steinbach:
You both made some great points. I think it's really hard fighting against McDonald's. Like, uh, I think Derek had the [00:09:35] naturally more we were wondering, Adam, if you were playing some four D chess here.
[00:09:38] Bobby Steinbach:
And, uh, you wanted to argue on McDonald's. Yeah,
[00:09:41] Derek Martin:
exactly. He was, he was. Right. Right.
[00:09:44] Bobby Steinbach:
Well, that makes him a good lawyer. Um, okay, let's spin the wheel. [00:09:50] Next up we've got pop culture.
[00:09:52] Derek Martin:
Ooh.
[00:09:52] Bobby Steinbach:
Starting with social media fan, our influencers, real celebrities, or is traditional celebrity status still more prestigious?
[00:09:59] Derek Martin:
I'm gonna go with yeah. Real s celebrities. I, I gotta stop answering these the right way.
[00:10:06] Adam Rossen:
I know. Should, should I take the other side just so we can debate it? Have more [00:10:10] fun. Sure. I'll, I'll take the other side. No, let's do it. They are not celebrities.[00:10:15]
[00:10:18] Adam Rossen:
Okay. So I'm gonna start off and say they are celebrities. Okay. Because look, somebody Derek like. [00:10:25] Somebody who's old and out of touch with reality like yourself, okay? You're gonna [00:10:30] think it's all about movie stars and this traditional stuff. Well, let me tell you somebody who's hip and cool, who's on [00:10:35] with the IG and the TikTok, these are celebrities.
[00:10:37] Adam Rossen:
These are people that are pushing products. These are people that are making more money than movie stars these days. And when we're talking about that. [00:10:45] That young generation, you know, 12 to 18 and even 18 to 34 places that you can't be [00:10:50] in touch with anymore. Derek, these, this is what the people want. Okay.
[00:10:54] Adam Rossen:
So these are absolutely celebrities. They're pushing products, they're influencers and they're helping people like me and the [00:11:00] younger generation, which now has the biggest buying power in our country to make decisions about what, where we're [00:11:05] gonna be spending our money and what we're
[00:11:06] Derek Martin:
gonna do. Wow.
[00:11:06] Derek Martin:
You're including yourself in the younger generation. You are an excellent lawyer. Um. So Sure. And there's no doubt, I'm not gonna argue that they don't [00:11:15] make money. They absolutely make some money, but that doesn't make them, uh, it's not because of their [00:11:20] skills. Like the, the celebrities these days, real celebrities.
[00:11:24] Derek Martin:
Act in movies, TV shows make music, right? Those, the traditional celebrities have a skillset. The ones you are talking about, play video games [00:11:35] online and record themselves or do pranks and stuff like that, right? So [00:11:40] by and large, the influencers these days are either. Hot [00:11:45] chicks in bikinis or dudes who just do outrageous stuff to [00:11:50] get views.
[00:11:50] Derek Martin:
I wouldn't call that anything close to an actual celebrity with a, any sort of skillset.
[00:11:57] Adam Rossen:
Well, so when we're talking about skills, the skill is to get eyeballs on the screen. Okay? So before the skill was to get people butts in seats at [00:12:05] a movie theater or watching tv, it's no different than on your phone now.
[00:12:08] Adam Rossen:
It's just easier. So, you know, when we had jackass 20 years ago, that's pranks. People love Jackass. So now we have people just doing it on their own without, you know, having to be on MTV. [00:12:20] So it's the same kind of stuff. It's entertainment, it's eyeballs on screen, people are watching. [00:12:25] That directly translates to money.
[00:12:26] Adam Rossen:
And that is a major skill that is. And so what
[00:12:28] Derek Martin:
are these influencers actually influencing? They're influencing people to be jackasses.
[00:12:35] Adam Rossen:
Right sounds, sounds like my grandparents, you know, talking about different things back in their [00:12:40] day. Moral dilemmas. What are we back in the sixties now, you know, fifties, sixties, talking about [00:12:45] the horse of American there.
[00:12:45] Adam Rossen:
Doubt family.
[00:12:46] Derek Martin:
There's no doubt. There's no doubt that it's popular that it's taken over, but [00:12:50] it doesn't mean that I have to, you know, sort of war worship the ground that they walk on because [00:12:55] a bunch of 13 year olds think that watching somebody put makeup on is cool. [00:13:00]
[00:13:00] Adam Rossen:
Yeah. But you know, you also talk about hot chicks and bikinis, that that's been there for about a hundred [00:13:05] years.
[00:13:05] Adam Rossen:
Okay. And we talk about, yeah, those, those are movie stars, right? We talk about the movie stars. Okay, look, all of us are, are a 15-year-old boy at heart, and we're gonna wanna see hot [00:13:15] chicks on the movie screen or on TikTok and bikinis. And that's what it is, right? So you give the [00:13:20] people what they want.
[00:13:21] Adam Rossen:
Again, doesn't make 'em a celebrity.
[00:13:24] Bobby Steinbach:
Good points, both of you. Let's spin the wheel. Um, okay. We are on marketing even if it isn't first, social media and legal [00:13:35] branding. Does a strong social media presence enhance a lawyer's credibility or does it risk [00:13:40] professionalism?
[00:13:41] Adam Rossen:
Enhances credibility, which now will screw me if you say,
[00:13:44] Derek Martin:
yeah.
[00:13:46] Derek Martin:
Uh, alright, I'm, I'll take that. It does not enhance credibility.
[00:13:51] Bobby Steinbach:
Okay, so then your flipping sides.
[00:13:56] Derek Martin:
So of course, um, having a social media presence enhances the credibility of a lawyer or really any other professional. Why, [00:14:05] because. People are social beings. They want to see who you are, what you're [00:14:10] involved in, what you're doing. They wanna know, like, and trust you. And social media is a great [00:14:15] way to display that to the masses.
[00:14:16] Adam Rossen:
So when you're the social media lawyer, your. Most of these social media lawyers, they're not even practicing law. They're not even handling [00:14:25] cases, they're just figureheads. So you don't know the quality of the work, you don't know [00:14:30] the team behind them. You don't know the people. You just see some fancy guy or fancy girl.
[00:14:34] Adam Rossen:
Then they're talking about all these things. It's deceptive. Okay, you what? Are you gonna make a decision [00:14:40] based on an important legal issue by somebody doing a TikTok dance or somebody telling you to [00:14:45] yes, people do right when it's wrong and it, and it's leading towards bad. Bad legal work [00:14:50] for people and it hurts people.
[00:14:51] Adam Rossen:
You're already, you're gonna get legal advice about what to do from the police, from some guy who's smoking weed telling you to, you know, shut the F up. [00:15:00] Right? Come on here. These, these aren't real lawyers.
[00:15:03] Derek Martin:
I think you can. Yeah, I, I think you can. That absolutely that exists and I, I get that, that's a risk, but I think you can separate bad lawyering [00:15:10] from social media, right?
[00:15:11] Derek Martin:
They don't have to be one in the same. Don't put 'em in the same bucket necessarily. There are some excellent lawyers that can, you know, put out videos on, on social media and, [00:15:20] and increase their credibility and attract clients because there's no doubt about it, whether you [00:15:25] like it or not. The general public sees, uh, some, a social media [00:15:30] presence if it, if it connects with them, and they do sort of associate more credibility with that, with [00:15:35] that professional.
[00:15:35] Derek Martin:
So it is happening. Um, if, if, if a lawyer chooses to abuse that and not do good work, well that's on the lawyer. That's not the fault of [00:15:45] the social media.
[00:15:46] Adam Rossen:
Yeah. But then people aren't gonna know about that, right? You know, reputation is so important. So they're just gonna be continuing to get clients doing bad work and bad [00:15:55] work.
[00:15:55] Adam Rossen:
And the, and the bar, you know, the, the state bars aren't equipped for that. You know, people need to really be [00:16:00] able to know about referrals. They need to be able to, you know, really understand who they're [00:16:05] working with and not some if
[00:16:06] Derek Martin:
personality. Yeah, I agree. I absolutely a potential client should interview the attorney, ask all the right questions.
[00:16:12] Derek Martin:
Absolutely. And I think more information including social media, uh, allows them to do that a more educated public, um, which I believe social media does it, it lends, its the prophecies, the [00:16:25] professionals true self, uh, hopefully when social media's done right is a good thing for the [00:16:30] general public.
[00:16:30] Bobby Steinbach:
All right.
[00:16:30] Bobby Steinbach:
Okay. Okay guys, great job. Um, we are gonna wrap up here with a game.
[00:16:40] Bobby Steinbach:
So the game is, I am going to give you both a 100% made word that does not exist, and I want you to give me the definition of it. And there's no, this is [00:16:50] okay to, to be clear, this is not devil's advocate. You don't have to argue for the other person's word. Okay. Got it. It's just you, [00:16:55] you get to make your own.
[00:16:55] Bobby Steinbach:
Coming up with the definition. Let's do pl. With a p flourish,
[00:17:00] Adam Rossen:
it's when multiple people are doing big things, it's like plural and flourish. So you got like two or three people that are, that are doing some cool big things and being successful. [00:17:10] So there, there, there's a flourish.
[00:17:11] Derek Martin:
That's, that's, that's, that's good.
[00:17:13] Derek Martin:
That, that's helpful except that is not, oh shit. We're not arguing. Damn. Except you are wrong. Except [00:17:20] you're wrong. That is not the definition of flourish. Flourish is an animal. [00:17:25] Flourish is an animal that's in the sea. It is, um, lives very, [00:17:30] very, uh, deep at the depths of the ocean and it has those little eyes that like turn off [00:17:35] to the side sometimes.
[00:17:36] Derek Martin:
And um, it was invented by Mr. James Flourish, the third.
[00:17:41] Bobby Steinbach:
Oh, that sounds right. And those little eyes that you're referring to, I call those the DUI Fish. Yes. Because they can't see straight. They're, yeah, that's right. Aless. It's a [00:17:50] dewy fish. Um, okay, great guys. I think those are some strong definitions. I think you're [00:17:55] both right.
[00:17:55] Bobby Steinbach:
Different, uh, usages, different etymology and so on and so forth. Um, that's pretty much it. Let's, uh, wrap up devil's advocate. [00:18:05] Thanks for joining, guys. We'll, uh, we'll see you in the next one. You
[00:18:07] Adam Rossen:
got it. All right. Thanks for having us.
[00:18:09] VO:
Thanks for tuning into this episode, episode of Devil's Advocate. Who do you think the winner was?
[00:18:13] VO: Make sure to leave a comment to let us know. DM us for any ghoulish topics you think we should dare to debate. We'll catch you in the [00:18:20] next one.
