02. Two Legal Marketers Debating OATMEAL and KANYE?!

[00:00:00] Bobby and Andrew: 
What? Oh, Oh, disgusting. That was, Yeah.

[00:00:02] Ron Latz: 
Okay.

[00:00:02] Ron Latz: 
All right. I'm just making sure.

[00:00:04] Bobby and Andrew: 
could 

[00:00:04] Ryan Makris: 
Okay, so I'm arguing that. 
[00:00:49] Bobby and Andrew: 
Welcome to Devil's Advocate. Today is a very special episode.

[00:00:53] Bobby and Andrew: 
We've got, Ryan and Ron on with us. Ryan Makris and Ron Latz. I should probably give last names too. these guys are gonna [00:01:00] be the battle of the Rs. 

[00:01:04] Bobby and Andrew: 
So we've got good questions laid out. Marketing centric episode, Probably better for us as moderators. ~ Um, these guys are gonna be the battle of the Rs. ~I mean, usually we've got attorneys on here, so now with marketing folks, we're gonna see how they get to, uh, construct their arguments.

[00:01:17] Bobby and Andrew: 
I feel like you and I are gonna have much more different opinions too. Probably, so. Okay. All right. Lemme spin the wheel. okay. And we are on other legal starting off, off topic. these are gonna be questions that are not directly related to legal, but are legal tangential, so to speak.

[00:01:36] Bobby and Andrew: 
Number one, sex work should be legal, yes or no? 

[00:01:39] Ryan Makris: 
I'll, take, yes, it should be legal.

[00:01:41] Ron Latz: 
now, I, now I just have to say no,

[00:01:43] Bobby and Andrew: 
No.

[00:01:43] Bobby and Andrew: 
Well, if you want to [00:01:45] argue,

[00:01:45] Ron Latz: 
yeah, I'm not gonna, next

[00:01:47] Ron Latz: 
question.

[00:01:48] Ron Latz: 
~This is the problem I~

[00:01:48] Ron Latz: 
~got into when I was answering the original questions. Is that how I, that's how I was trying to respond.~

[00:01:48] Bobby and Andrew: 
~So you're a yes to this is no,~ this is, no, no game? 

[00:01:49] Ron Latz: 
This is no game, 

[00:01:50] Ron Latz: 
because we're both gonna say no You

[00:01:52] Bobby and Andrew: 
number two, should marijuana be legalized [00:01:55] nationwide?

[00:01:55] Ryan Makris: 
Yes.

[00:01:56] Ron Latz: 
I

[00:01:56] Ron Latz: 
mean, I, I'll have fun with that one. I'll say no. 

[00:02:02] Ryan Makris: 
I mean, look, my argument basically just breaks down to you know, why are drugs illegal to begin with? 
It's because it's for the greater good of society, right? So yeah, people should be able to do what they 
want, generally within Reason. But there are certain things that are just bad for society overall. You know, 
we made a decision a long time ago that heroin is bad for society. We don't want a bunch of people 
doped up. We made a decision a long time ago that cocaine, it's bad if we get the entire 
country addicted to cocaine. It can go on down the list.

[00:02:32] Ryan Makris: 
Now look, is marijuana as bad as those other drugs? Yes, it Totally. is, 
and it should not be legalized nationwide. That's my argument. 

[00:02:40] Bobby and Andrew: 
You go,

[00:02:41] Ron Latz: 
Ryan, you are in Colorado, aren't you?

[00:02:44] Ryan Makris: 
Oregon.

[00:02:45] Ron Latz: 
Oh man.

[00:02:47] Ron Latz: 
All right. Well, either way, if you were in Colorado, they would be very disappointed in 
that stance given, uh, how it is, decriminalized as well as many other states. Listen, I 
think if we are to shun people for going out and smoking a joint and not do the same for 
someone going to a happy hour to enjoy a beverage, I don't see what the difference is
there. I also think there's enough. People that have been incarcerated over selling a silly 
plant that we should free up all this space in all these jails for these minor infractions 
where people are just trying to, enjoy themselves a little bit just as they would with a drink. 

[00:03:20] Ron Latz: 
Regardless of how the drug is classified, putting it into the same arena as cocaine and heroin is, 
is misguided at best. I think that everyone should be able to enjoy themselves a little bit, roll up 
some flowerand smoke a joint at the end of the day if they'd like to.

[00:03:35] Ryan Makris: 
Look, Ron, you talked about alcohol. Look, we can barely handle alcohol. And yeah, great idea. Let's fully 
legalize a drug. that makes people stare at a bag of Cheetos or Doritos, like they're trying to solve a
math equation. That's good for our country, for sure.

[00:03:50] Ron Latz: 
I would rather be eating bags of Doritos than crashing into cars and killing people.

[00:03:55] Ryan Makris: 
I'm not, I'm not arguing for alcohol.

[00:03:58] Ryan Makris: 
No, I'm not making that argument at all. I, I think maybe alcohol should be illegal too, right? I think 
all of these things should be illegal. I mean, have you ever talked to a guy who's been high. All day. 
Right? It's like trying to have a conversation with a goldfish, right?

[00:04:11] Ryan Makris: 
Wait, what were you talking about? Oh yeah, pizza dude. Right, right. Oh, but it's harmless, right? It's harmless,
yeah. Right useless blob with a Netflix subscription, Zero ambition. That's the same thing that marijuana does. People
already suck at being productive. And you think making laziness legal in all 50 states, is gonna help Right. The DMV 
takes four hours to, process a form and That's while they're sober. right? You gave all of marijuana, they're gonna be 
like the, uh, right. Those Animals. from, from Zootopia.

[00:04:47] Ryan Makris: 
Right. Working at the DMV, it's gonna be terrible for our country. Any of these substances that are 
abused, you're gonna run into people that are lazy, unmotivated, and don't get their shit done. So I don't think 
that there's a difference between someone that is either drinking too much or smoking too much, as long as they 
can find some level of moderation and allow the people to make that decision. They know what's too much, what's 
not enough, and if they get into some trouble, they've gotta have a support system around them to let them know 
that they're falling off the track. And if not, I think that people should be able to make up their own mind and
know what is good for them 

[00:05:19] Ryan Makris:
Look, you're making the argument that like alcohol, alcohol is terrible. alcohol's even worse than marijuana. So 
that should be illegal for sure. I don't think that has any impact on the argument that marijuana shouldn't be, 
illegal, right? And look, it's not It's not just making people lazy. Have you ever seen a guy on weed like panic 
over nothing?

[00:05:38] Ryan Makris: 
All right. Is this the future? You want the whole nation of people, right? Staring at their phone thinking, oh my gosh,
did I just text that or Did I Imagine it freaking out I don't think so. If they get anxiety or paranoid from smoking, then 
they know that it's not for them and they can go back to doing whatever it was that they were doing. 

[00:05:53] Bobby and Andrew: 
I'm gonna, cut it off. I think you guys made great points, but, uh, let's get off pot. You pot hoods. We're gonna move on 
to the next question.

[00:06:00] Ron Latz: 
Well, what happened there? We, we don't know who got the gavel.

[00:06:03] Bobby and Andrew: 
Well, we both landed on the fence. Yeah, I Oh, on the Andrew just never moved. Yeah.

[00:06:08] Bobby and Andrew: 
And I think that's laziness. To be honest, I didn't feel, I didn't feel a, like a strong, like, a swaying to one side 
or the other for this one. We're spinning business. 

[00:06:18] Ron Latz: 
All right.

[00:06:19] Bobby and Andrew: 
Ready? Uh, AI can handle the entire pre-lit process for simple personal [00:06:25] injury matters.

[00:06:25] Ron Latz and Ryan Makris: 
Yes.

[00:06:27] Bobby and Andrew: 
The Arizona ABS exception is a good thing for the legal industry. A.B.S. sorry.

[00:06:32] Ryan Makris: 
All right,

[00:06:34] Ryan Makris: 
I'll, I'll, I'll go. Just since Ron's taking a moment. Yes. It's a good thing for the legal industry.

[00:06:38] Ryan Makris: 
I'll take that

[00:06:39] Ron Latz: 
Sure. I'll take the other side.

[00:06:44] Ryan Makris: 
Okay. [00:06:45] Look, the legal industry is one of the last remaining areas where you have to be a professional and your 
incentives are completely aligned with the client. Now look at all of these other industries which have had outside money 
come into them, and a few things happen. Consolidation, big corporatism, but under underlying all of that greed and seeking 
out profit, that is not what we want in the legal industry. It's not good for anyone, least of all clients.  

[00:07:17] Bobby and Andrew: 
I'm gonna go immediately

[00:07:18] Ron Latz: 
I think there are many areas in which this would allow an increased access to legal services in markets where predominantly 
they may not have been able to afford them before. It's not a hill that I'm willing to die on here. I still think that there 
is a lot of consolidation that is coming down Legal's Pike here, but allowing outside money to fund things specifically that 
are going to improve the client's experience, like access to portals, online scheduling, increased, uh, online payment, uh, 
all these other things that can be accelerated to improve the productivity and efficiency of a lawyer because they don't necessarily 
have as much outside capital as they would like.

[00:07:58] Ron Latz: 
To run their firms more profitably. I do think that it would be incredible. Incredibly helpful. There's also firms, like our last topic 
we talked about like how drinking could be bad for you, right? The legal industry is run rampant with a lot of alcoholism And they're 
unable to like cope with a lot of the things that are going on right now. And I think getting additional funds that would also help alleviate 
some of these stresses financially could be a benefit to them. Ryan. 

[00:08:27] Ryan Makris: 
So now, now, we'll now we'll go at it.

[00:08:29] Ryan Makris: 
Okay, your argument is that it's gonna help people, it's gonna help things overall to have lots of outside money coming in, which is really what 
this is. about. Right. So the Arizona a BS exception is about Both sides. I'm saying it'll help client and it ambiguous. None are able to
own. a percentage interest, you know, an equity position in law firms. Okay?

[00:08:48] Ryan Makris: 
So let's just let anybody run a law firm now. All right? Wait until the day when McDonald's gets into the legal industry, right, and gets into doing 
divorces. Would you like, would would you like full custody with your Big Mac? Right?

[00:09:01] Ryan Makris: 
That'll be the day.

[00:09:02] Ryan Makris: 
right? You know, who really thinks letting corporations own portions of law firms is gonna help clients, corporations do. Right? Because the one thing
missing from the legal industry is more corporate greed. 

[00:09:13] Bobby and Andrew: 
Yeah. I think Ryan kind of swept the board with this. Yeah. Let's see. What's Ryan say? 

[00:09:18] Ron Latz: 
the non-attorney, is not the majority owner of the business. And many times these individuals are just responsible for a lot of the business
operations. I would think someone that is running a business geared to help and serve the legal community would eventually want to put themselves in a
position to possibly support some of their clients in a much outsized fashion. to make sure that there is even more alignment.

[00:09:43] Ron Latz: 
Imagine A VDM was able [00:09:45] to invest and own a law firm and have the accountability to produce those results and [00:09:50] get a bigger piece of those settlements and verdicts. I think that that would be foolish and shortsighted not to take that [00:09:55] type of, uh. Opportunity if it was

[00:09:57] Ron Latz: 
given to you? 

[00:09:58] Ryan Makris: 
That's like saying that open AI.[00:10:00] 

[00:10:00] Ryan Makris: 
It functions like a nonprofit. You know

[00:10:02] Ryan Makris: 
who owns OpenAI? [00:10:05] Microsoft. That's who they

[00:10:05] Ryan Makris: 
answer to.

[00:10:06] Ryan Makris: 
You know, know who the lawyer is going to answer to hedge funds, [00:10:10] right? That'll be the day the lawyers really want to answer

[00:10:12] Ryan Makris: 
to some

[00:10:12] Ryan Makris: 
MBA, who doesn't practice [00:10:15] law?

[00:10:15] Ryan Makris: 
Who thinks justice is just a single line

[00:10:17] Ryan Makris: 
item on a spreadsheet, right? That's gonna [00:10:20] go well, right?

[00:10:20] Ryan Makris: 
Oh, but it'll increase access to legal services. Like how privatized

[00:10:24] Ryan Makris: 
healthcare

[00:10:25] Ryan Makris:
 increased access to affordable

[00:10:26] Ryan Makris: 
doctors.

[00:10:27] Ryan Makris: 
No, I mean, that's.

[00:10:28] Ryan Makris: 
I don't think that's gonna

[00:10:29] Ryan Makris: 
be [00:10:30] working out for you there, bud. 

[00:10:30] Bobby and Andrew: 
good? Okay. That's it. That's time. That, that was very good. I'm sorry I'm takes see me [00:10:35] forever to bend. I'm old. Um, but yeah, that you guys made some really, I really [00:10:40] like justice as a line item on the spreadsheet. That's uh, 

[00:10:45] Bobby and Andrew: 
Yeah, that's a pretty good soundbite.

[00:10:46] Bobby and Andrew: 
So I think Andrew and I landed on Team [00:10:50] Ryan for that one. Maybe 

[00:10:51] Ryan Makris: 
I mean, that was tough because I, I,

[00:10:52] Bobby and Andrew: 
I.

[00:10:53] Ryan Makris: 
I don't agree with

[00:10:54] Ryan Makris: 
anything [00:10:55] I just said.

[00:10:55] Bobby and Andrew: 
just that's the point.

[00:10:57] Bobby and Andrew: 
tickets. [00:11:00] Uh,

[00:11:02] 

[00:11:04] Bobby and Andrew: 
Oatmeal is one [00:11:05] of the best foods you can eat.

[00:11:06] Ron Latz: 
Yes.

[00:11:08] Bobby and Andrew: 
Yes 

[00:11:09] Ryan Makris: 
it is. 

[00:11:09] Bobby and Andrew: 
What? Oh, Oh, disgusting. That was, Yeah, I, I can't believe you guys landed on both. Yes. For that. [00:11:15] Can you separate the musician or the artist from the art? 

[00:11:19] Ron Latz: 
Similar [00:11:20] to your first one. Don't agree,

[00:11:22] Ron Latz: 
but I'll

[00:11:22] Ron Latz: 
take It it. 

[00:11:23] Ryan Makris: 
I'll, I'll lay out

[00:11:23] Ryan Makris: 
my argument first,

[00:11:24] Ron Latz: 
So to clarify, you, you're, you're an r Kelly fan for this. 

[00:11:28] Ron Latz: 
Okay.

[00:11:28] Ron Latz: 
All right. I'm just making [00:11:30] sure.

[00:11:30] Bobby and Andrew: 
could 

[00:11:30] Ryan Makris: 
Okay, so I'm arguing. I'm

[00:11:31] Ryan Makris: 
arguing that people should have no problem [00:11:35] listening to Kanye West

[00:11:35] Ryan Makris: 
Music. I.

[00:11:36] Ryan Makris: 
even though he, he is basically

[00:11:38] Ryan Makris: 
a Nazi, you know, he is [00:11:40] come out early as

[00:11:40] Ryan Makris: 
like a

[00:11:40] Ryan Makris: 
neo-Nazi.

[00:11:41] Ryan Makris: 
Right. Okay.

[00:11:42] Bobby and Andrew: 
Alright. Yeah, 

[00:11:43] 

[00:11:47] Ryan Makris: 
okay, look.

[00:11:48] Ryan Makris: 
You've gotta be able to [00:11:50] separate the singer and the song, right?

[00:11:52] Ryan Makris: 
Name, a name, a music artist [00:11:55] who has a squeaky clean background and is a model of, you

[00:11:59] Ryan Makris: 
[00:12:00] know,

[00:12:00] Ryan Makris: 
of, of morals that

[00:12:01] Ryan Makris: 
you would, who, who you would let

[00:12:03] Ryan Makris: 
babysit your children, [00:12:05] right? You could probably count on one hand the number of famous musicians who fit that over the [00:12:10] years. so look, if you're

[00:12:12] Ryan Makris: 
gonna be digging into people's personal lives and

[00:12:14] Ryan Makris: 
really caring [00:12:15] about the things that these people

[00:12:16] Ryan Makris: 
do in their.

[00:12:17] Ryan Makris: 
Personal lives, you? know, outside of their music. You're never gonna [00:12:20] listen

[00:12:20] Ryan Makris: 
to any music at all. That'd be impossible.

[00:12:21] Ron Latz: 
Right. We're not. talking

[00:12:22] Ron Latz: 
about

[00:12:23] Ron Latz: 
drug usage or allowing someone to [00:12:25] watch our children that you know might smoke or or drink. We're talking about [00:12:30] pedophile. Files. We're

[00:12:30] Ron Latz: 
talking about people that abuse young children and

[00:12:33] Ron Latz: 
girls [00:12:35] or boys and bring them into

[00:12:36] Ron Latz: 
their home. You're gonna advocate for someone [00:12:40] that

[00:12:40] Ron Latz: 
is 

[00:12:40] Ron Latz: 
blatantly showing

[00:12:41] Ron Latz: 
Nazi tendencies as

[00:12:43] Ron Latz:
well as other

[00:12:44] Ron Latz: 
individuals. I mean, we can

[00:12:47] Ron Latz: 
go down, like listen, you can celebrate the entire catalog, right? [00:12:50] Go

[00:12:50] Ron Latz: 
down the list. R Kelly, Michael

[00:12:51] Ron Latz: 
Jackson, like 

[00:12:52] Ron Latz: 
I mean, if you wanna celebrate those people's actions [00:12:55] and

[00:12:55] Ron Latz: 
their doings, by all means. I think I can find plenty of other artists and musicians that, you [00:13:00] know maybe they partied a little bit too hard, but they just let us have a good old

[00:13:04] Ron Latz: 
time at some, [00:13:05] at some parties and sing and dance and let us let loose a little bit.

[00:13:07] Ryan Makris: 
look, I'm just gonna concede this [00:13:10] one to

[00:13:10] Ryan Makris: 
Ron. 'cause look, I'm like, we're, this is a podcast. People are gonna, I'm not gonna sit here and [00:13:15] defend. I mean, like, what is it? It

[00:13:17] Ryan Makris: 
came out

[00:13:17] Ryan Makris: 
last week, like his entire clothing store [00:13:20] online. He now just sells a shirt with a swastika on it. I'm not gonna

[00:13:23] Bobby and Andrew: 
Ryan, I'm gonna 

[00:13:23] Bobby and Andrew: 
point out that from the [00:13:25] start when you said that you were team, uh, like you had to defend neo-Nazi and you didn't want [00:13:30] to, uh, Andrew immediately went to your side, so. know, he didn't go back until [00:13:35] you could see them. I, And then he was like, uh, think it's a really easy argument. If you had to remove [00:13:40] artists because they're not great people, you would've nothing to listen to.

[00:13:43] Ron Latz: 
There are levels 

[00:13:44] Bobby and Andrew: 
There's levels. I don't think it matters. Andrew also tried to make the point that Mind KF should be part of the [00:13:50] school curriculum. So no, I didn't. I mean,

[00:13:52] Bobby and Andrew: 
We'll do legal marketing, then we'll do the game. [00:13:55] Um, legal marketing, number one. It's okay to run Google Ads on a competitor name.

[00:14:03] Ryan Makris: 

I'm arguing that it's not [00:14:05] okay. 

[00:14:05] Ryan Makris: 
there are many forms of advertising that are kind of just attacks on the [00:14:10] system. Look, if you go back

[00:14:11] Ryan Makris: 
to before the late 1970s,

[00:14:13] Ryan Makris: 
lawyers weren't even permitted to [00:14:15] advertise at

[00:14:15] Ryan Makris: 
all. And you know what? Claimants still found their way to a [00:14:20] lawyer.

[00:14:20] Ryan Makris: 
Imagine that.

[00:14:21] Ryan Makris: 
And then advertising became legal, and all of a sudden lawyers had to pay money to [00:14:25] the yellow

[00:14:25] Ryan Makris: 
pages

[00:14:25] Ryan Makris: 
just to

[00:14:26] Ryan Makris: 
get their name

[00:14:26] Ryan Makris: 
out, there.

[00:14:27] Ryan Makris: 
Same number of

[00:14:28] Ryan Makris: 
claimants finding

[00:14:28] Ryan Makris: 
their ways to law firms. [00:14:30] Now all of a sudden the law firms have

[00:14:32] Ryan Makris: 
to pay. a bunch

[00:14:32] Ryan Makris: 
of money to make,

[00:14:33] Ryan Makris: 
to be featured in the Yellow [00:14:35] Pages. 'cause that was the only way now

[00:14:36] Ryan Makris: 
to get in touch with

[00:14:37] Ryan Makris: 
claimants and you trend forecast

[00:14:39] Ryan Makris: 
that out

[00:14:39] Ryan Makris: 
to where we are

[00:14:40] Ryan Makris: 
today. And now you have to pay money to Google

[00:14:43] Ryan Makris: 
to bid on your own [00:14:45] name. because they allow other people to

[00:14:46] Ryan Makris: 
do it.

[00:14:47] Ryan Makris: 
It's just a tax on the

[00:14:48] Ryan Makris: 
whole system and it doesn't make

[00:14:49] Ryan Makris: 
sense. 

[00:14:50] Bobby and Andrew: 
Hmm. 

[00:14:51] Ron Latz: 
I think

[00:14:52] Ron Latz: 
if you're in a competitive a competitive environment, and you have a [00:14:55] firm that's out there that's heavily

[00:14:56] Ron Latz: 
invested in at-home, billboard, radio, tv, bus wrap, and you [00:15:00] want to try to

[00:15:00] Ron Latz: 
dam

[00:15:01] Ron Latz: 
some of that demand and siphon it because that's [00:15:05] where you see an opportunity, as long as it's not against the bar regulations and guidelines, I don't see what's

[00:15:09] Ron Latz: 
the difference between that and then having an organic content page calling out the pros and cons of working [00:15:15] with your

[00:15:15] Ron Latz: 
firm or

[00:15:15] Ron Latz: 
the one

[00:15:16] Ron Latz: 
next door if you want to put the squeeze on the big advertisers, the [00:15:20] big spenders, because they've got these massive monthly

[00:15:23] Ron Latz: 
budgets for non-branded.

[00:15:24] Ron Latz: [00:15:25] 
but

[00:15:25] Ron Latz: 
they've left the gap

[00:15:26] Ron Latz: 
open for you to capitalize on their brand [00:15:30] without being misleading,

[00:15:31] Ron Latz: 
without telling 'em that you are their firm. You've gotta keep that all above board.

[00:15:34] Ron Latz: 
I'm [00:15:35] not saying to pretend that you are that lawyer, but otherwise, if you

[00:15:38] Ron Latz: 
wanna

[00:15:38] Ron Latz: 
show them the difference and why. [00:15:40] You are a better choice

[00:15:41] Ron Latz: 
than this massive advertiser and it's allowed, it's [00:15:45] well within the rules Game on.

[00:15:46] Ryan Makris: 
Okay. Look,

[00:15:47] Ryan Makris: 
you build a business.

[00:15:49] Ryan Makris: 
you bust your ass [00:15:50] for years, and finally you get some brand recognition

[00:15:52] Ryan Makris: 
and then bam,

[00:15:54] Ryan Makris: 
some [00:15:55] dude pays Google to cut in line, right? Like a fast pass at Disneyland. Imagine opening a [00:16:00] pizza

[00:16:00] Ryan Makris: 
shop. Every

[00:16:01] Ryan Makris: 
time someone walks in,

[00:16:02] Ryan Makris: 
a

[00:16:02] Ryan Makris: 
dude in a, domino suit

[00:16:03] Ryan Makris: 
jumps

[00:16:04] Ryan Makris: 
outta the [00:16:05] bushes, like, Hey, are you sure that you

[00:16:07] Ryan Makris: 
want to

[00:16:07] Ryan Makris: 
go

[00:16:07] Ryan Makris: 
in there?

[00:16:08] Ryan Makris: 
I've got

[00:16:08] Ryan Makris: 
you over here for 7 [00:16:10] 99. That is conquest ads and let's be real Google,

[00:16:14] Ryan Makris: 
they

[00:16:14] Ryan Makris: 
love this stuff, Oh no. Someone's bidding on

[00:16:17] Ryan Makris: 
your name. Oh, I

[00:16:18] Ryan Makris: 
guess you better start running [00:16:20] defensive ads with us and

[00:16:21] Ryan Makris: 
pay us

[00:16:22] Ryan Makris: 
even more money. Right? It's literally [00:16:25] extortion,

[00:16:25] Ryan Makris: 
It's like some

[00:16:25] Ryan Makris: 
mobster going like,

[00:16:27] Ryan Makris: 
Hey, nice little brand you got there.

[00:16:29] Ryan Makris: 
It'd be a shame if someone were to run an ad on it.

[00:16:32] Ron Latz: 
I think that that other

[00:16:33] Ron Latz: 
firm can then take the [00:16:35] opportunity

[00:16:35] Ron Latz: 
to squish the other firm that's

[00:16:37] Ron Latz: 
attempting to bid on their name, Jack the cost up

[00:16:39] Ron Latz: 
for 'em, [00:16:40] so it's not affordable, and tell 'em who owns what market. If they want to be the king of the castle and [00:16:45] someone's coming after their turf, you've gotta protect it.

[00:16:47] Ron Latz: 
That's just the nature of the beast when you're the number

[00:16:49] Ron Latz: 
one game

[00:16:49] Ron Latz: 
in town. I'm not telling 'em to pop out of a bush

[00:16:52] Ron Latz: 
and make statements that might make them [00:16:55] believe they are

[00:16:55] Ron Latz: 
the other

[00:16:55] Ron Latz: 
firm, but if

[00:16:56] Ron Latz: 
they feel like they've got a differentiating value prop to

[00:16:59] Ron Latz: 
offer, [00:17:00] yes, that other firm may have

[00:17:01] Ron Latz: 
been around spending dollar after dollar to to get this [00:17:05] business.

[00:17:05] Ron Latz: 
If

[00:17:05] Ron Latz: 
they're just

[00:17:05] Ron Latz: 
trying to keep their shingle hung and they find an opportunity on it, I think it's well [00:17:10] within the game.

[00:17:10] Ryan Makris: 
Okay, look popping

[00:17:11] Ryan Makris: 
out of the bushes.

[00:17:12] Ryan Makris: 
That that, that's

[00:17:13] Ryan Makris: 
a perfect example because look, [00:17:15] if this happened in real life, people would be throwing fists. All right? Imagine walking into a [00:17:20] Nike store and

[00:17:20] Ryan Makris:
a guy from an an

[00:17:21] Ryan Makris: 
and an

[00:17:22] Ryan Makris: 
Adidas 

[00:17:22] Ron Latz: 
This happens in tech all the time. HubSpot [00:17:25] versus Salesforce copper versus whatever. Like it is just a different tool, a [00:17:30] different system. You've gotta make sure, then you've got the right

[00:17:32] Ron Latz: 
marketing people

[00:17:33] Ron Latz: 
behind the wheel. If you're getting [00:17:35] gouged by someone that's bidding on your name, you

[00:17:37] Ron Latz: 
might have to look at a

[00:17:38] Ron Latz: 
another marketing [00:17:40] agency.

[00:17:40] Ron Latz: 
If they can't help you

[00:17:40] Ron Latz: 
combat this, 

[00:17:42] Ryan Makris: 
okay, look, Google ads, conquest [00:17:45] campaigns. It's just corporate pick pocketing. already

[00:17:47] Ryan Makris: 
own my name.

[00:17:48] Ryan Makris: 
Why the hell should I [00:17:50] have to pay to keep it? 

[00:17:51] Bobby and Andrew: 
great points. And Andrew and I split on this one. you guys each gotta [00:17:55] gavel.

[00:17:55] Bobby and Andrew: 
okay, let's do the game.

[00:18:02] Bobby and Andrew: 
The game is you're coming up with a [00:18:05] new metal band and you need to name the band and name the members, what's the name of the band of the [00:18:10] members.

[00:18:10] Ron Latz: 
up in arms.

[00:18:11] Bobby and Andrew: 
Do you have member names?

[00:18:13] Ron Latz: 
Ron, 

[00:18:14] Ron Latz: 
Bob [00:18:15] Hat,

[00:18:16] Ron Latz: 
Carmen Tone

[00:18:19] Ron Latz: 
and uh, rich.

[00:18:22] Bobby and Andrew: 
okay. Sounds diverse.

[00:18:24] Ryan Makris: 
let's [00:18:25] go with,

[00:18:25] Ryan Makris: 
I don't know,

[00:18:26] Ryan Makris: 
man, blood

[00:18:27] Ryan Makris: 
forge. 

[00:18:28] Ron Latz: 
Nice.

[00:18:29] Ron Latz: 
Nice.

[00:18:31] Bobby and Andrew: 
That was like a very, I felt like that was like chat. PT would gimme that answer. Were you chat [00:18:35] p ting while we were talking?

[00:18:36] Ryan Makris: 
Of course not.

[00:18:39] Bobby and Andrew: 
Yeah. [00:18:40] So good. okay guys. Thanks for joining and we'll see you on the next devil's advocate.

[00:18:44] Ryan Makris: 
This was stuff. [00:18:45] It was fun.

[00:18:45] Ron Latz: 
Ryan. 

[00:18:45] Ryan Makris: 
Thanks guys.