51. 40 Years of Lawyer Ads: What Actually Works

Andrew: Welcome to Hot Docket. I am joined today by Tara Lee and Andy Bederman. Today we are going to talk about personal injury. Thanks for joining us, Andy.

Andy Bederman: My pleasure.

Andy Bederman’s Path to Personal Injury Law

Andrew: Can you give us a quick background on your story as a lawyer, why you became a lawyer, and what motivated you to build the firm you have today?

Andy Bederman: Why did I become a lawyer? For two reasons. Number one, Perry Mason was a television show when I was a kid. It was the first trial lawyer television show in the United States, so that got me interested in law. Secondly, I was horrible at math and science, but I could read, write, and talk. That pointed me in the law school direction.

I have always wanted to help people, too. That is part of my nature, and the practice of law has enabled me to do that.

In terms of my professional biography, I went to law school in Cleveland, Ohio, at Case Western Reserve University. I was born and raised in Washington, DC, and I knew I was going home after law school. I graduated, went back home, and went to Rockville, which is the county seat of Montgomery County outside Washington. I knocked on doors and got a job as a clerk pending bar admission.

I passed the Maryland bar, and six months later I took the DC bar. Back then, you had to take separate bar exams. You could not waive in anywhere. Taking another bar exam was like going to the dentist. It was no fun.

I got a job doing insurance defense. They were representing the bad guys, but if you want to litigate, you either work as a prosecutor, a public defender, or in insurance defense because you are in court a lot. I did that for four years and honed my trial skills, such as they were.

I knew I did not want to do that for the rest of my life. In the process, I met a lot of plaintiffs’ lawyers. Most of them were self-employed, worked for themselves, and were masters of their own domain. They did what they wanted to do, they were generally well compensated, and they were helping people.

I left my law firm and connected with one lawyer for a couple of years, but he was not a good person. During that process, I reconnected with another attorney I had met while doing defense work. Roger Greenberg and I got together and borrowed $35,000.

By then, I had been introduced to advertising through the previous lawyer I worked with. We were starting to advertise, but these were clearly the very early days of attorney advertising. He did not have much interest in it and was not sophisticated about it. Roger was interested, so we borrowed the money and made some ads.

The ads were actually made by two of my best friends from kindergarten. One went on to become an Emmy Award-winning documentary film producer. The other was a writer and an English major. It was a family affair. We stayed together for about 20 years doing the creative work, started running the ads, and the rest is history.

Building a 40-Year Legal Advertising Brand

Andrew: I personally love your ads. I think they have a lot of creativity. A lot of people have a negative image in mind when they think of lawyer ads. They picture low-budget spots produced by the television networks themselves.

Andy Bederman: Right. I do, too. I think about my competitors’ creative work.

Tara: There are probably half a dozen firms out there with amazing creative. They can be more creative because they are not enormous companies where an ad has to go through many layers of approval. You like it, you give it the thumbs-up, and it goes. The creative can be amazing.

Andy Bederman: Thank you. I appreciate that. Andrew, you told me you were from the DC area and grew up seeing my advertising, right?

Andrew: Yes. I am largely responsible for your success, then.

Tara: You were the first touchpoint in that success.

Andy Bederman: Thank you. I appreciate that. I am a student of advertising in the legal space because of my job, and I have seen and studied a lot of advertising over the decades.

It is not unlike selling most products. You have to choose the method and the messaging you think are best for the product you are trying to sell. In the legal space, you have people like me who are soft sellers. I am selling my law firm, what we can do for you, and the fact that we have done it for many people in the past.

Sometimes the messaging is different because, at this point, I have a very mature legacy brand. I am primarily looking for eyeballs. Everyone knows me in the Washington, DC, metropolitan area.

A lot of my competitors use different messaging. Some of it is very in-your-face, hard-sell advertising. One of my competitors has dollar bills falling from the sky, which is something I could never do, never wanted to do, and never would do. But I acknowledge that there is a segment of the public that clearly responds to that type of messaging.

Andrew: It is interesting when you look at the three or four biggest firms in each state that do television and general brand advertising. They typically fall into a few different segments.

You have the jinglers who load up on 15-second spots. They want repetition, high frequency, and something that sticks in your head. Then you have the super-serious firms that want to look polished. They show large trucking verdicts and try to demonstrate that they are the best litigators. Whether that strategy works or not, it is common.

There are many combinations in between. Then you have what may be the largest segment, which is simply not very good creative.

Andy Bederman: Years ago, I decided I did not need to be on daytime television anymore because it was so crowded. When I started advertising, there was no one else on the air. Those days are long gone.

Now, if you turn on Judge Judy at 2:00 p.m., you may see 15 lawyers, and most of the ads look the same. I have the advantage of having been on the air for 40 years, so I do not have to worry about that in the same way. But if you are trying to break through the noise, it is very difficult, even with a lot of repetition.

Andrew: Differentiation is one of the harder things in the legal space. Many products differentiate on price, with a premium tier and a cheaper option. In a contingency-fee business, the price is generally fixed at about the same amount across firms.

Lawyers tend to think they can say, “I am a Super Lawyer,” or display some type of badge, but I do not think that resonates with consumers in a meaningful way.

Andy Bederman: Super Lawyers recognition may resonate with other attorneys, particularly if you are looking for lawyers to refer you cases, especially large ones. That might help. But I agree that the public that generally responds to attorney advertising does not really care whether you are a Super Lawyer.

What Makes Lawyer Advertising Effective

Andrew: If you had to identify a few of the most important elements of an effective ad, what would they be?

Andy Bederman: First, you have to decide who your demographic is. Who is your market? Who are you trying to reach?

I know because I have 40 years of data. My staff can create a very detailed demographic profile of our typical client. First, you need to identify your market. Then you have to decide the best way to reach that market in a way you are comfortable with, and then you go with it.

Obviously, television is not what it used to be. Broadcast television is not what it was even 10 years ago because people do not watch it the way they used to.

From Broadcast Television to OTT and Streaming

Andrew: Have you moved into streaming?

Andy Bederman: Absolutely. I have been streaming for a long time.

Andrew: Broadcast CPMs are generally much lower. When you first moved into streaming and saw CPMs that could be several times higher, how did you approach that? It goes back to demographics because you can narrow in on exactly whom you want to target. Can you walk us through that process?

Andy Bederman: My staff handled much of it because it is above my pay grade. We started investing in OTT, but I view streaming in several different ways.

I am on a lot of news broadcasts because people still watch the news. It tends to be an older audience. All the stations also have apps, so people can watch the news through the app. That is streaming to me. I am not going to be on a news broadcast unless it is also available through the station’s app.

When I otherwise think about streaming, I think about sporting events, premium television, and free television that can be streamed. Those are more of the OTT components.

We decided to invest in OTT, and what fascinated me was the analytics. In the old days, you would tell a television station who your demographic was, and the station would tell you what that audience watched.

Today, we give the platforms a detailed profile of our typical client, and they find those viewers. Every two weeks, they verify that those viewers saw the creative. They tell us how many people saw it, how many watched the entire ad, and how many visited the website afterward. Those are among the most important metrics for me.

My staff dove into the data and developed a general demographic profile of our clientele.

Tara: For attorneys listening, can you give us more context about what has changed in marketing and branding from when you started to where you are now?

Andy Bederman: The digital world has changed everything dramatically. Forty years ago, there was only television and radio. Now you have digital television, digital radio, streaming, the internet, and social media advertising.

Things have changed dramatically, particularly in the last 10 to 15 years. My media buyers tell me the audience has fragmented. People do not sit at home and watch one big television set anymore. Audiences have decreased dramatically.

I probably spend about 20 percent on traditional television compared with what I spent even five years ago. It is simply not worth the same investment.

My advice to lawyers who have not advertised but want to advertise is to do it digitally. The internet has lowered the barriers to entry because it is not as expensive. But the formula is still the same: Who is your demographic? Who do you want to reach? What is the best way to reach them through your messaging? What is the best advertising medium for reaching them?

The internet has turned everything upside down.

Short-Form Video and Changing Attention Spans

Andrew: What is your view on video ad length? What mix of durations do you prefer? Do you use many 15-second spots?

Andy Bederman: I used to run 30-second spots. Now I primarily run 15-second ads on the internet, and I think we are even running six-second ads.

Andrew: You are doing bumper ads.

Andy Bederman: I guess so. Again, it is above my pay grade. I have a digital marketing manager who is a wizard. He is a college dropout, but he is a genius.

We have been doing social media for about a year, and it has been very successful, at least according to my team, and I have no reason to disbelieve them. We have received millions and millions of views organically. We are just starting to experiment with boosting, which I hope will multiply that dramatically.

The social videos are generally 15 seconds, sometimes 30 seconds, and sometimes even shorter. I am not sure the public today, particularly younger people, has the attention span for a 30-second ad unless it is truly an eye-grabber.

Andrew: And you are paying more for the longer spot.

Andy Bederman: You pay more. In my case, I have a legacy brand. People primarily need to see my name, see my face, and hear my voice.

Consolidation in Personal Injury Law

Tara: Looking at the industry as a whole, what do you see changing in the personal injury world over the next five years?

Andy Bederman: Aside from the never-ending threat of tort reform, which could legislate us all out of business in a second, I think people are going to try to consolidate and buy practices.

I have been approached, which is flattering. I am not sure I would do it because I am old-fashioned, and I have partners who helped me build my practice. I would rather leave it to them and have them buy me out.

But I think you are going to see a fair amount of consolidation. Whether it will be successful, I do not know.

Andrew: Do you think consolidation would be good or bad for the end consumer?

Andy Bederman: As long as firms maintain the quality and level of their service, it should not be an issue.

I think the most successful way to do it, if you are a venture capital firm with a lot of money and you are looking to buy law firms, would be to become a major investor rather than simply buying the firm outright. You should keep the infrastructure, the existing customer service, and the systems that already work.

Most law firms that want to consolidate primarily need money. They need capital to increase advertising spend, add back-office personnel, or invest in AI, which is another development that will dramatically affect the future.

How AI May Change Pre-Litigation Work

Andrew: How do you think AI will affect law firms?

Andy Bederman: I think AI will help to the extent that you can trust it. I am not a beta tester, so I am going to let everybody else shake it out before I jump in.

But I have met many of these vendors, and the possibilities are clear. Mail distribution is one example. A large firm still receives a lot of mail, and using AI to manage that is fascinating.

Medical record analysis and summarization are also promising because AI might find something in thousands of pages that the human eye does not catch.

Andrew: That can be thousands of pages.

Andy Bederman: Exactly. I cannot even read one page of a medical record anymore.

AI can also assist with settlement demand preparation. But I do not think any of it will ultimately replace the need for human review and monitoring.

Andrew: I agree. I think it will streamline the pre-litigation side of the business, but anything related to trial work will take much longer to change.

Andy Bederman: My litigators are not enthusiastic about it at all.

Andrew: That makes sense.

Andy Bederman: But it is there. It is coming, if it is not already here.

Tara: Is there anything you would like us to promote, such as a book, podcast, or another project?

Andrew: His name speaks for itself.

Andy Bederman: I do not have a podcast, and I have not written any books. I am just a pretty face for radio in DC.

Tara: Andy, you and I go way back to my days at AAJ. It was such a pleasure having you on the show. I really appreciate it.

Andy Bederman: My pleasure. I am always happy to talk about my past. People call me an OG. I have learned that means old gangster. I assume it is complimentary.

Tara: Absolutely. Thank you for joining us.

Andy Bederman: My pleasure.